tried this organ the other day, but it couldn't handle the decibles...
  • The following comment was posted with this video:

    "Apparently, this did actually happen sometimes when Bach was asked to inaugurate a new organ. He would do some limbering up exercises, and then say "Let's see what she can do," and pull out all the stops and the organ builder and the church architect would cower in a corner to see what would survive."

    Was this true?
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    Hilarious. But a serious question. I am being told by a service rep that I need to spend $85,000. to rebuild a Schantz console with worn out combination action and flaky pedal contacts. Reasonable? It is a 1953 vintage console and parts are hard to get, I realize that. But is it possible to repair such defective components, rather than rip everything out of the console and digitize it?

    Anyone with any experience in a similar situation?
  • Speaking from experience with worn out consoles... often times the price to rebuild/releather all of the components in the old capture systems, let alone managing to get the multitude of small components back in their original spots, is far greater than simply updating to modern solid-state control systems. Also, when you look at the long term, in another 50 or 60 years the repairs you make to the leather will have to be done again while if you solid-state the console, it can last indefinitely (in theory at least).
    Thanked by 1CharlesW
  • The benefits of upgrading to solid state circuitry far, far outweigh attempts at repairing. I play a 1963 Schantz which is beginning to show signs of a much needed overhaul. Because of the price attached to said overhaul, I tried to have a couple seemingly minor things repaired which entailed a hefty expense, and a week later....same problem. Any repairs which are possible are only buying you time (and not much at that). Yeah, it's a hefty price tag to overhaul (genearlly 1/3rd the replacement value of the instrument), but the benefits, imo, far outweigh the price.
    Thanked by 1CharlesW
  • BJJ1978
    Posts: 22
    Charles, here's an update for you. Since my last post on this thread in 2014, the Schantz I now play is, finally, being upgraded to solid state. The work begins the Monday after Easter. You had previously asked if the quoted $85,000 seemed reasonable for a console upgrade. Keep in mind that the Schantz I play is a 1963, 2 manual, so it is likely much like yours. The final price for the upgrade was $32,000.00 (about $10,000 of which is labor), and that's with a "custom" built solid state from Peterson. I'm not quite sure what else factors into the $85K price you were quoted, but that seems very high compared to what we paid. In fact, with this upgrade, our console will be entirely digital, complete with a sequencer, 100 levels of memory, more divisional and general pistons and new stop tabs. I realize that the prospect of your console being "gutted" doesn't sit well at initial thought. It seems a major undertaking, I know. But believe me, I'm very much looking forward to consistency of functioning pistons, along with multiple memory levels. Also, I shall not miss that "hissing" sound coming from the present, worn out pneumatics inside the console.
  • Charles -
    The $85.000 seems beyond outlandish to me. This thread is three years old - what did you end up doing?
    ______________________________

    Expiditus 1 -
    asks about Bach's trying out new organs, 'is this true'? Yes it is true. The first thing (this is common knowledge amongst organists) Bach would do was to pull out all the stops to 'test the organ's lungs'. He was noted for his 'imaginative' use of the various stops, which resulted in delightful sounds that no one else would have thought of.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    I contracted with Miller Organ Service of Louisville to rebuild the console. Everything now is Peterson solid-state. Included in the price was the re-racking of a nice 2' principal in a shrieking 3-rank mixture, and voicing the mixture itself down in volume. The 2' is now playable either separately with its own stop tab, or as part of the re-voiced mixture. We also added a 32' Resultant which improved a rather weak pedal division. A few key covers had to be replaced and I went for ivory to match the originals. More expensive than plastic, but well worth it. I purchased a zymbelstern and gave it as a gift to the church. I should add that roughly $3,000 of the total was for a new adjustable bench. Total price for all but the zymbelstern, $45,000 - a far better price than originally quoted by 2 other builders.

    I am pleased, the congregation says the organ has never sounded better, and the quality of the rebuild work is excellent.
  • How or where did you obtain ivory in this day and time of ivory being vorboten?
    I've heard that it's even complicated to sell or purchase an old instrument with ivory keys, and even more complicated to ship it across state lines.

    It isn't well appreciated that touching ivory is a far more satisfying spiritual experience than touching plastic. One is an organic, living, breathing substance; the other is dead as dead can be. The same may be said of wooden or bone keys in relation to soulless plastic.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    My understanding is that legal ivory exists- not on the scale it once did, but still available in limited quantities. Someone else will have to look into the details.
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    I remember David Ogletree telling me how they gat ahold of ivory for M&O keyboards, but I forget the exact process, though, if I recall correctly, England was involved.
    Thanked by 1CharlesW
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    The same may be said of wooden or bone keys in relation to soulless plastic.


    No objections to bone at all. I haven't played wooden keys.
  • Bach as Organ Tester.

    "Apparently, this did actually happen sometimes when Bach was asked to inaugurate a new organ. He would do some limbering up exercises, and then say "Let's see what she can do," and pull out all the stops and the organ builder and the church architect would cower in a corner to see what would survive."


    In addition to the fine, accurate notes by MJO above:

    This story has evolved over the years, and originally was a bit different:

    Bach was hired by quite a few churches to travel to them in this case not for an inaugural concert but rather to test the organ thoroughly prior to the church accepting the new organ and making the final payment to the builder. (if the organ failed the test, there could be no concert until problems were solved by the organ builder who was waiting for his final check.)

    Part of the testing was not to see how loud it was but to see if there was sufficient winding in place for full use of the organ.

    One of the organs he was hired to test had bells in the pedal. After playing it, the next organ he had built for his parish also had bells he could play in the pedal.

    I do believe that the organ builder would cower in the corner if the winding was not sufficient and the entire organ would go flat while large chords were heard. This meant he had to spend more time and money getting the winding improved, and making less money.

    Rarely do churches today hire an organ tester, sadly enough. Those that do are very, very smart.
    Thanked by 1M. Jackson Osborn
  • Used ivory and mammoth ivory is not unheard of these days in the piano world. Last I checked ten years ago, I could recover a keyboard with mammoth for $3000 and elephant for $10,000.
  • eft94530eft94530
    Posts: 1,577
    If we make the elephants extinct will it make
    elephant ivory keys less expensive like the
    mammoth ivory keys?
  • ...extinct will it make...
    Being, then, unreplenishable, it should make them more expensive.