When the streams of Babylon overwhelm heaven's dewfall
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    As those of us who've haunted this forum for years now know, the "discussion" regarding the efficacy of any number of versions of piped, electronically powered and digital organs has raged on way passed 300 comments, according to one of the prominent posters. That observation was coupled with a suggestion that, if for no other reason (my take), CMAA'ers should attend the '14 Colloquium in Indy for the organ crawl possibilities. Excellent suggestion as I've done one of those when at an ACDA national held there one spring a while ago. Interestingly enough, most of the ACDA convention crowning events for me always proved to be the common "hymn sing" at incredible churches across the nation. What they had in fellowship, though, the "sings" lacked a substantive purpose in the sense of worship. They are/were always celebrations to be sure. And the Lord's Name was most beautifully invoked. But among all the conventioneers the diversity of beliefs, or perhaps even non-belief as well, obviated the necessity to regard the "sing" as a celebration of sacred song, not God. Unfortunately my many experiences at NPM nationals/regionals displayed even less palatable religiosity over two decades begining in1979.

    So, eventually (through the written persuasion of the one and only Jason Pennington of then Lafayette and now Little Rock) I was intrigued by the notion of "Six Days of Musical Heaven" and attended my first colloquium at CUA. And it was just that and more. Every aspect of the "hymn sing" experience was magnified not only by repertoire and intent, but that its only purpose was to serve and adorn the daily liturgies, hours and Mass, each and every day. Incredible filial bonds among members were forged forever, and that became an even greater motivation to attend subsequently colloquia and intensives. This was no conceit: this was, as a Roman Catholic via Sondheim, "Being Alive." And eventually I personally was "slain by the spirit" and let the TLM fully into my being at one of the Masses in Pittsburgh.

    I wish neither to bore the reader nor admonish anyone or have a Festivus Airing of Grievances in this post. But I have to wonder (as I wander) through certain MSF threads if we all tend towards a zeal that exceeds the ultimate reason to incorporate as CMAA, which is to incorporate as Christians, the original Christians and not let certain diversions cause us to sit down in stasis and weep over this exegency or that which encumber us, or to behold the miracle of dewfall from heaven that represents as did manna the culminating miracle of the incarnation of YHWH as an absolutely helpless and vulnerable newborn infant in the City of Bread and David.

    From Nativity to Epiphany, the slaughter of the Innocents, the presentation in the temple to the Baptism of the Lord, we have an abundance of catechism that should compel us to sing in the public square as if it were heaven (which, ironically, it is in a quantum perspective.)

    So, the ideals of CMAA remain the best navigator for whomever among us assumes the roles of helmsmen, or deckhand on the barque of Peter at worship. But all those ideals are a conceptual construct that attend what cannot be idealized or idolized, the worship of the One True God. I would hope that as we conduct all our good business on this and other fori of our profession, we keep that in mind. Cantare amaris est. Cantate Domino cantincum novum! Guadete!
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,499
    It strikes me as though there is a false dichotomy being proposed in the above, Charles. I don't think that discussing what is objectively best is in any way irreligious. It's not the same thing as praise, but it is not opposed to praise. Though perhaps I misunderstand your point.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Thanks, Kathy. I didn't at all even want to propose anything other than a true anamnesis individually and corporately, much less imply a dichotomy.
    In truth, it was just a long-winded (you expected something else?;-) Christmas Card to forum and CMAA members, as now is a time to look up, to the Star (comet?), to the falling dew and snowflakes (sorry Midwesterners!) and to the immaculate heart of the Theotokos and of our God, now and always Emmanuel.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,499
    Maybe I couldn't make out what you were saying. Were you wondering about other peoples' zeal? (para 3) And were you suggesting that people don't always keep the right priorities in mind on various fora? (para 5)
  • The Romance of Duelling in all Times & Countries

    Andrew Steinmetz (1868)

    Duels with Sabres
    In these duels the short sabre is preferred by the seconds, its wounds being less fatal than those of long.

    The combatants are posted at the distance of one foot from the sabre-points.

    In general, these duels are fought with duff-gloves. But otherwise the parties may wrap a handkerchief round their hand and wrist, provided that no end is allowed to hang down.
    Of course the same precautionary steps are taken to ascertain, as in a sword duel, that no defence is worn by either party.

    At the word ALLEZ, the combatants advance on each other, and either give point or cut, vaulting, advancing or retreating at pleasure. To strike an opponent when disarmed, to seize his arm, his body, or his weapon, is a foul proceeding. A combatant is disarmed when his sabre is either wrenched from him or dropped.

    Duels with the sabre may be stipulated to take place without giving point, when blunt sabres are used. In this case, to give point and kill an opponent is considered an assassination.

    These duels are always considered ended on the first loss of blood.

    When soldiers fight, the maitre d’armes, or fencing-master of the regiment, stands by, ready to parry any very ugly cut or thrust, as the form of the duel may be, and otherwise to see that everything is done properly according to the regulations. A disabling wound in a duel, with permission of his Colonel, is considered equivalent to a wound in battle, and entitled to a like pension.


    And here I thought the goal was total annihilation.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    3- nope, just "Don't miss the forest for the trees."
    5-"Reason for the season."
    Dats it
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,499
    Noel, Charles and I are friends. Please don't presume to understand. Thanks.

    I'll just take one more stab (haha) at this.

    I think we all have to be very careful not to presume to judge other peoples' spiritual lives, either positively or negatively. I think these judgments tend to arise, ironically, when people are expressing judgment. The critical faculty, that help to discernment, sounds like a swishing blade of anger. Or of rudeness. Or of intolerance.

    But a lot of times, it's just people thinking.

    I think we need a space where people can THINK about sacred music. In the course of thinking, some things will be mentioned as bad examples. This is all part of thinking.

    Some people will think that kindness, charity, goodness, shouldn't sound so critical. And I'm not sure what to say about this. Should the viewing of the forum be restricted to signed in members, so that those who would prefer their thinking a little less pointed (haha)??

    In short, I don't think there is a forest separate from the trees. The forest and the trees are both CMAA: the fellowship and the honest hard thinking. At least that's what I hope it is and will be.
    Thanked by 1Palestrina
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Amen.
    Thanked by 1Kathy
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,694
    The writing in this thread,
    It makes me scratch my head,
    Whatever has been said,
    Makes me haste to my bed.

    SM, Copyright MJM 2013
    I'm no Pluth/Wood.
    Thanked by 1CharlesW
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,499
    Sweet dreams, young Cathedral musician. Break a leg.

    Best wishes for a happy Christmas, everyone! (You too, Frogman Noel. God bless.)
  • Merry Christmas! May the New Year be better for all.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    A Merry Christmas to all, and to all a good set of pipes! (vocal and... otherwise)
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    Christ is born! Glorify Him! - that is unless you are on the Julian Calendar. Christmas will be Jan. 7 Gregorian, or Dec. 25 Julian.
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,150
    Joyeux Noël
    Fröhliche Weihnachten
    Feliz Navidad
    Vrolijk kerstfeest
    Wesołych Świąt
    Buon Natale
    God Jul
    З Різдвом Христовим (Z Rizdvom Khrystovym)
    Feliz Natal
    Glædelig jul
      and of course
    Merry Christmas
  • Joyeux Giffën!
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    It is December 26. I experienced a wonderful Christmas Day. Gave choirs day off from helping at Mass, but had a wonderful ensemble for the 10:30am. All my girls and their guys came home safely. My son in law's mother is trying to rally in the midst of a series of chemotherapy regimens, and I'm so proud of him and his family in the efforts to assist her and her husband, our dearest friends/family.
    My silly youngest daughter found an amazing dancing robotic cat you plug your phone into at Walgreens for me. One of the best presents ever. My serious eldest found vigil candles with caricatures of Steve Buscemi and Christopher Walken as icons, unbelievable! My middle crazy/lovey daughter got me that wine goblet that holds an entire 750 ml., so I can say "Officer, I only had one glass of wine" truthfully! And a boxed Mona Lisa whose lapped hand waves when slightly shaken.
    My beloved wife presented me with tickets to acoustic guitar wizard Tommy Emmanuel in January, when we will have been married forty years by that date.
    I am so thankful to my Lord and Savior, for none of that compares to the love that our family has been endowed by His grace.

    By now, the pipe organ thread has probably surpassed 400 posts and will likely continue unabated (which is fine with me) as it did all day yesterday, which was the date we celebrate God's Nativity. As my friend Kathy rightly points out it is certainly fit and proper to THINK about sacred music and its components. I do wonder if "thinking" about tracker action organs, musicology about harpsichords, Bach/Couperin/Lizst/Widor/Vierne (loved that Mass!) on Christmas Day is of any merit by comparison to the greatest cosmic event other than the resurrection that the universe has undergone?

    Look eastward, look up, look down at the child in swaddling clothes, look at what your dreams mean and be ready to uproot your entire life if necessary, and then look westward knowing another day will arrive providing you the opportunity to help change someone else's life for the better at any degree or turn.

    God bless you all.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen JulieColl
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    No, only 391 posts. Not 400 yet.
    Thanked by 1melofluent
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    CDub, I failed to mention a passing thought-Did you, Noel, KM, GPdaPalestrina, MJO, HartleyM et al conspire in advance to fabricate that thread just for squish and giggles?
    I mean, it's now the rhetorical equivilent of a 7 set tennis match between Borg and Nastase with no end in sight, tho' one cannot say its ties are called "love" all.
    Why couldn't we just have the Earps and Clantons wrappin' it up in two minutes in a manure patch corral? ;-)
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    You give us too much credit. That thread creation was a Noel original.

    We are not fighting, but are now discussing early pedal performance techniques. Stay tuned for more developments.

    Speaking of fighting, what think ye of the proposal to split CA into 6 states?
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Cool. This is like listening to Reagan in his early years calling a baseball game at which he is not physically present! Or waiting for the next telegraph to click....
    BTW, Charles, I think you have acquitted yourself most competently in your posts there. Merry Christmas, friend.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    Merry Christmas to you, and also to what sounds like a lovely family you have there.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Oh, I'm all for splitting California up in any configuration! We get the world's breadbasket, keep Yosemite and the Sequoias, control the Hetch Hetchy resevoir and put up impenitreble walls at the crest of the Grapevine and the Tehachapis so that LA folk can't steal our water no mo', and flood our west side farmlands so that more vineyards and wineries, crops, herds and orchards will flourish. Heck, we could secede. Or we could even give ourselves back to Mexico and let the various colors of the market figure out how to coexist in the global economy.
    To dream.....the impossible dream.....
  • You may not recall, but my first post ever was immediately criticized as having a title that was inflammatory. You expected me to change? But, thanks, injecting the conspiracy theory may add fuel to this fire! Happy Christmas.

    Our bank will not process credit card payments to suspect countries. They've added California to the list. [seriously!]
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,499
    I do wonder if "thinking" about tracker action organs, musicology about harpsichords, Bach/Couperin/Lizst/Widor/Vierne (loved that Mass!) on Christmas Day is of any merit by comparison to the greatest cosmic event other than the resurrection that the universe has undergone?

    Look eastward, look up, look down at the child in swaddling clothes, look at what your dreams mean and be ready to uproot your entire life if necessary, and then look westward knowing another day will arrive providing you the opportunity to help change someone else's life for the better at any degree or turn.


    Again I would suggest that there is absolutely no need to dichotomize. You don't sacrifice contemplation in your life just because you are thinking about how to make better music. That's a weirdly anti-intellectual dichotomy with no basis in Catholicism.

    On the contrary, the word in the Bible for Word means reason, logic, meaning, as well as word/expression. Thinking is not only God's will for us, it is one important way in which we resemble the Second Person of the Trinity. Central to St. Athanasius' argument for the divinity of Jesus--the argument that saved the day in Nicaea-- is this reasonableness of Christ.



    Thanked by 1Palestrina
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Aw Kathy, I hate to be caught, arrested, found guilty and sentenced for practicing dichotomies without a license!
    It must stem from my last visit to my cardiologist who asked me, "Would you rather have a frontal lobotomy or a bottle in front of me." I chose poorly.
    Buon Natali, C
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,157
    Well, Kathy, be accommodating, hm? If Aquinas really said, after his vision of Christ, that all his writing was so much "straw", then who's to say that Melo is going too far if he puts devotion first on Christmas Day instead of the intellectual life?
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Sign of the apocalypse, Richard cloyingly but honestly rising to defend the intent of the malformed Californian who just wants people to be joy-filled. These are my friends and I love them!
    Y'all, Chonak and Kathy have done more to help my reformation(s) as a believer, thinker and evangelist than I can recount.
    But God bless you all and enjoy the beauty before all our senses right here!
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,499
    Chonak, according to my professor, "straw" is a kind of nickname for a literal reading, of Scripture for example. (The literal is the most basic of the "four senses of Scripture.") So there is more to be discovered--but not in a way that makes the literal sense useless. Straw is not chaff--at least not in this instance.

    I don't have any problem with anyone putting devotion first, particularly in California, which certainly needs devotion. I do have a problem, and hopefully always will, with someone chiding other people for reasoning, because he would prefer them to not be reasoning, particularly when he questions their devotion.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    I do have a problem, and hopefully always will, with someone chiding other people for reasoning, because he would prefer them to not be reasoning, particularly when he questions their devotion.


    Kathy, we could go all "Clintonian" and delay the conclusion of who "someone" and "he" is, but we don't need to do that really, do we? So may I clear up the issue of my intent with this thread, I being its author?

    As you know, sometimes my comedic nature works well for most folk and sometimes it fails miserably. And in some cases I just rub people the wrong way no matter how I speak or behave. But this someone has good-naturedly tried not to come off as "chiding" or scolding in this thread, and moreso would never "prefer" or presume that others' devotion to Christ is found wanting because of their inclination to think about anything. I am sorry you seem to have come to that conclusion. And I wish I could say I understand why this has rubbed you clearly the wrong way. But I regret that it seems so. I hope you do get that I merely want to characterize my joy these last few days, and my love and gratitude for all who've brought me to this "place" in my life. And if I may, I hope with all my heart that this confession finally lessens any tensions that have arisen because of misundertandings.
    Thanked by 1CharlesW
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,499
    I wasn't trying to be mysterious, Charles. And I'm not accusing you of bad intent. But you, in your own words, questioned the "merit" of the discussion about organ action. Why did you ask that, here of all places? There's plenty of time in this life--even on Christmas--for both contemplation and discernment. In fact, I'd propose that they go together. Certainly they are both human actions in accord with God's will. In any case, on a discussion board concerned with sacred music, the "merits" of such a discussion should really be self-evident, 365 days of the year.
    Thanked by 2melofluent CHGiffen
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,499
    By the way, I hope that you will do me the favor of believing that the concerns I raise are the ones I'm actually talking about. It has nothing to do with being rubbed the wrong way or whether you've been nice about it. It's not about tension. It's about the fact that you've opposed thinking and contemplation, and have suggested that others should do the same.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,499
    Let me put it another way.

    Edmund Burke famously said, "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good [persons] do nothing."

    Later on in history came the Pluth corollary to Burke's law: "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that free spaces for thought and discussion vanish."
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,157
    If an opposition between thinking and contemplation is a theme in Melo's writings, keep an eye out for it, so you can collect a few examples over time and point to them.

    Thanked by 1melofluent
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,499
    I'm really not trying to pick on Charles, though. This sort of thing comes up from time to time in different ways. Usually it's more along the lines of, "We should be at peace, be charitable, let byegones be byegones"-- but in the middle of a conversation, while we're still thinking. .
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Fair enough, my friends. (Actually, RC your recommendation to Kathy scares the daylights out of me, and that is no mean feat! So, Kathy dear, don't feel an immediate need to put me on the witness stand! ;-)
    Sometimes I just am overwhelmed by a sort of Ecclesiastes Effect. As I mentioned, this was all in all a wonderful sacral and secular Christmas out here. So as I'm going through the paper today (for which I re-subscribed really for this very purpose) I see the obituary of one of my dearest professional friend's mom, whom I knew to have been in ICU, and whose husband is a rather distinct lector at church. My friend is an incredible sound tech and did our "stadium" Guadalupe Mass Dec. 12. So, it doesn't shift my shiftless Friday of relaxation, but puts me into a different perspective and, for lack of a better word, "clock" tho' all is well with widower and son. So, the visceral thing of "a time to celebrate...a time to grieve" is very real to me. And I suppose that influences Kathy's astute observations about my inclination towards that Rodney King resignation.
    Lord knows I love, or used to at least, a passionate argument, confrontational an' all.
    But it's becoming clear that I no longer have the mind nor stomach to differentiate such from "conversation." CharlesW even reminded me "Hey, we're not fighting."
    So, I encourage all to sally forth and illuminate minds and hearts to better discipleship and professionalism.
    I still love you guys!
    Thanked by 2Kathy CHGiffen
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,499
    Sounds fine, and a good way forward. Many thanks, Charles and all. Just to be clear about my own convictions, I believe in two things a) it's possible to have both truth and charity at the same time, and b) one kind of charity is intellectual charity, and we can really help the Church by thinking well about sacred music.
    Thanked by 2Palestrina CHGiffen
  • C'mon, Kathy- you forgot one
    Truth
    Charity
    Hilarity

    Seriously though, since I think a whole lot about sacred music, and read the forum and lit blogs way too much, to say nothing for preparing chants, etc., I am helping the Church a whole lot. I like that.

    So the next time my thumbs are fluttering away and I'm posting on the forum and my husband gets irritated (like now), I'll remind him that I'm helping the Church. Awesome.

    But seriously for real, I share views a and b.

    And since this thread has take on group hug qualities, I'm jumping in for some CMAA love. Bring it in

    (((((((( I love you guys! ))))))))
    Thanked by 2Kathy CHGiffen